antiaphrodite 92, it’s not that it is or isn’t OK. It’s the tendency of the people who use the phrase I was talking about.
And also, despite what racists claim, white people are NOT an oppressed group in this country. Yes, it’s a double standard, and appropriately so: for the dominant group to claim “pride” is genuinely different. When an oppressed group does it, they’re declaring their intention to fight oppression. When the dominant group (in this case whites) does it, they’re declaring their intention to stay on top (i.e. keep everyone else down).
The CSA battle flag IS a racist symbol. Not everyone who flies it is racist, but they will be read as such by anyone who sees them flying it. A person who is not anti-Semitic could wear a swastika as well, but everyone who saw it would assume they were.
even though i didn’t intend to wade into the debate; even though i’m not american; i have to say xopher has hit the nail completely on the head. and it’s ok because he’s not proselytising – just responding to previous commentary.
xopher- try moving to an area in the US where whites are a minority, and try to tell me they are not discriminated against. Try Hawaii- see what happens when a white person goes down to Waianae Beach by themselves. Maybe not in your town, and it is certainly not widespread- but it does happen.
My great-great-grandpappy fought for the Great Confederate States of America. The negroes are upset that they still haven’t received their 40 acres and a mule, but I was supposed to get those negroes. Who’s the real victim here?
You cannot sit there and say that because white people are a minority in Hawaii, or anywhere in the US, that white people are not on top of the social ladder, in every possible sense of the term. Besides, no one in Hawaii is going to fly the CFA flag, nor are we really looked down upon there. I lived in Hawaii for 5 years, and I am white. Never have I felt bad about the color of my skin.
As a Canadian, I can empathasize with you Americans. We have our own intolerant population who belittle and continue to oppress a minority, treating them like second class citizens in their own country. There are even laws to support them! They are known as “Quebecois”. However, unlike the South, they would never actually have an armed rebellion – they’re French.
elerico, I never said white people were not the top. In fact, I did state that this is definitely not a widespread thing. But I am sick and tired of people telling me that because I am white, I have never faced discrimination, when I had friends get their heads smashed in for the simple fact that they were white.
I grew up primarily on the west coast, in communities where racism was not prominent and not an issue. I attend college in the south right now, and I hate that my classes are tinged with a “white people suck” mentality. My ancestors were not slave owners, and I certainly have never done anything of that nature for people to be angry with me- why is it my fault?
If you honestly never saw racism in Hawaii, you were lucky. If you were on Oahu (Maui and Big Island did not have that mentality, from what I remember of them), I do not know how you managed to never see it.
all this bs is just bs. these things are only a big deal because people make them a big deal. the swastika,that flag,hundreds of things are taken as racist or bad or offensive in some way,but those symbols didnt start off meaning that and they shouldnt have to mean that now just because somebody put a negative connotation on them at one point….like,i understand why theyre bad or would offend people,but idk, i just dont think people should let a symbol,a flag,a word get to them so badly and control their emotions like that. just because something meant one thing at some point doesn’t mean it has to mean that now…or,for example,go to Indonesia and show them a swastika and theyre going ot tell you a completely different meaning…idk,it only offends you because you let offend you,it only means that because thats the only way you can see it…
ohbabybaby – You can’t render the swastika impotent simply by saying it was a benign symbol that was misused. There is no going back on the swastika. No moral, thinking person would use it unless to provoke or to align themselves with Nazis. In trying to intellectualize the use of offensive symbols – the swastika in particular – you are choosing to ignore the horrific acts, perpetrated millions of times over, that were committed by the Nazis under this symbol.
no,im not choosing to ignore anything.im very aware of them.if thats what you would need to do in order to consider it inoffensive then so be it, but you and i obviously dont think alike. & im not saying its just a symbol thats misused,its more the fact that it meant one thing,then it meant another,then another,and so on…if you only see nazi when you see it,then okay,thats your mind and your way of thinking.it doesnt always have to be associated with hitler,nazis,ect…im just saying theyre are more sides to things..
hate to get all serious, but i think referring your argument to the nazi flag is specious to say the least.
yes the swastika has been used by hindus, jaians, even aviators (thanks wikipedia); but a swastika in black, on a white disk, and with a red background means one thing only – it’s the bona fide, overarching symbol of intolerance, bigotry, mass genocide etc and is used as such by any organisation nowadays that espouses the same views. there’s no two ways about it.
*When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and “those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation.” (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: “As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work.*
oh, but wait, it could actually just be an aerial view of two lesbians scissoring on a giant white frisbee adrift on a sea of tomato-juice. i never looked at it that way before…
Are you guys at all aware that a few thousand black men actually volunteered in the ranks of the Confederate army as fighting soldiers, that several CSA generals were abolitionists or that the CSA had integated regiments of Hispanics, blacks and Native Americans and the Union did not?
i do think this wedding looks cheap and tacky and I am sure these inbreds are misrepresenting the purpose behind the Confederate flag. A large part of the Civil was for the South to keep its way of life. Unfortunately, tobacco and cotton were the real bread winners in the south and slaves were at the proprietors disposals. This is a sad thing that has happened in the past. My grandfather and his father picked cotton right next to the “negros”. My family were no slave owners. They worked their way up from the bottom. Just like every real American should. I am sick of this sense of entitlement that so many people feel are owned to them. Watch the movie Precious to get an idea. My grandfather flies his confederate flag to honor the fallen soldiers who were trying to preserve the southern way of life.(not just to keep slaves but to keep tradition and property. Slave ownership aside, for you to directly link the confederate flag with racism makes you ignorant and close-minded. I lived in Columbia and witnessed the removal of the Confederate flag from the state house. I do not believe the south will rise again. I don’t think it is even an issue. I think we as a nation need to band together and put racism aside. I am sick of affirmative action. Reverse racism is just as real as racism itself. Take a walk in my own town — a 98% black community where I am the minority. I busted my ass to get Salutatorian and tied with a “minority”. The Valedictorian was also a white female and I was called into the guidance office to be told that although I along with my competition had the exact same GPA and extracurricular skills; he would be given the honor. I would have to settle for 3rd in class (no mention of a “tie”)And I quote “We just can’t have two white girls be Valedictorian and Salutatorian. It doesn’t look right” So take a moment and think before you write something idiotic. Spot bickering about who deserves what because of their skin color and maybe we can actually focus on the things that matter. Like the future generations…..and I am done
@ ambchop: You are really doing your “Confederate flag isn’t explicitly racist” view point a disservice by immediately launching into a diatribe about Affirmative Action. Also, due to all of the sentence fragments and misspellings in your post, I would downplay your status as salutatorian. Again, you are not doing any favors for the South’s reputation there.
What the Confederate flag once stood for is irrelevent. Things change. Symbols change. The swastika was originally a symbol in Buddhist and Hindu religions, but it has obviously taken on a much more ominous connotation now. If these people at a Nazi swastika flag, would you have defended their rich Buddhist heritage?
Whether implicitly or explicitly, the Confederate flag has a strong relationship with racists. There may be some people out there with strong feelings towards the flag for purely historical and cultural reasons, but they are overshadowed by idiots like this.
You know jaymztheking just because someone yells something loudly and a lot of times does not make it so. Symbols are in the eye of the beholder not the observer.
Take the moon and morning star (Venus) for example. To me and most of the world, when they are placed together on a flag or a banner, they mean terror and death to the muslims they mean peace and love, to the ancient Mid-Easterners they were the moon god, in the American west they were a symbol of law and order.
Just because the C.S. flag means racism to you does not mean it is so. Likewise the swastika still means what it does to the hindu.
@SeeBea: You really aren’t helping the “Confederate flag isn’t racist” thing either, with your racist example. The moon and star symbol represents all of Islam, not just a few radicals. Seeing it as a symbol of “terror and death” makes as much sense as seeing the cross as a symbol terror and death, given the long history of Christians persecuting and killing people they don’t agree with.
Symbols may be in the eye of the beholder, but their meanings are shaped by those who use them. If the majority of people who use a certain symbol are racist fucks, then the rest of the world will see that symbol as being racist. And while the swastika may have a long history as a sacred symbol, it’s meaning in the Western world as a symbol of Nazi hatred is not something that can just be ignored.
TL;DR:
You can’t just ignore common perceptions of a symbol because you think it should be perceived differently. Also; implying that all Muslims are terrorists makes you look like an ignorant, racist jackass.
Well, all muslim’s may not be terrorists, but sure seems that all terrorists are muslim.
And using Christianity’s history of the Crusades as a testament to ‘Christian’ violence is ridiculous. First off, you’re comparing something that took place 700 to 1,000 years ago to modern-day Islam. You don’t see a problem with that? Second, guess who the Christians were fighting during the Crusades…that’s right….muslims.
Excuse me, this is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Stop flying your bullshit loser flag! Anyone who flies a confederate flag is UN-AMERICAN! LEARN TO FLY THE RIGHT FLAG! Hint: It’s got 50 stars and 13 stripes.
What I find most hilarious about this sloppy slew of slackjawed bigotry is the inherent bunker mentality of the Idiots’ Collective proudly parading their wilful ignorance of evidential history in favour of a scapegoating blame reflex.
It’s not Islam’s fault you can’t understand that sentence.
I’m just throwing this out there….but maybe she meant right as in correct leg…is it possible she had it on her “right” leg before and its supposed to be on the left?
Curious Pencil, I did understand that sentence. Also, I’m from the South, female, Christian, and educated. Yes, her spelling is repulsive. At least if you’re going to have such a theme at your wedding, or any event, represent it and spell it correctly, please. As a Texan, we are a prideful bunch, and Southerners in general are the same. The Rebel Flag is about pride, not hate. It’s representative of the South and the pride Southerners have in their roots, trials, tribulations, triumphs, and occasional illiterate weddings.
As a side note, it was the “War of Northern Aggression” if you’re from the South.
I’m in Texas also and no one I’ve ever met has ever called it the “War of Northern Aggression”. Not who was being serious anyway.
“Ruble fag” is the funniest thing I’ve seen in the long time.
@alord
wow-you are whichever one I want you to be…. my opinion alters your identity……. fantastic….why can’t all of life be this easy???? 😉
@alord
I also like the art work… it creeps me out a little… and i like it
also panacea is a great name. cornucopia would be good also.
antiaphrodite 92, it’s not that it is or isn’t OK. It’s the tendency of the people who use the phrase I was talking about.
And also, despite what racists claim, white people are NOT an oppressed group in this country. Yes, it’s a double standard, and appropriately so: for the dominant group to claim “pride” is genuinely different. When an oppressed group does it, they’re declaring their intention to fight oppression. When the dominant group (in this case whites) does it, they’re declaring their intention to stay on top (i.e. keep everyone else down).
The CSA battle flag IS a racist symbol. Not everyone who flies it is racist, but they will be read as such by anyone who sees them flying it. A person who is not anti-Semitic could wear a swastika as well, but everyone who saw it would assume they were.
even though i didn’t intend to wade into the debate; even though i’m not american; i have to say xopher has hit the nail completely on the head. and it’s ok because he’s not proselytising – just responding to previous commentary.
in summary – go xopher!
xopher- try moving to an area in the US where whites are a minority, and try to tell me they are not discriminated against. Try Hawaii- see what happens when a white person goes down to Waianae Beach by themselves. Maybe not in your town, and it is certainly not widespread- but it does happen.
My great-great-grandpappy fought for the Great Confederate States of America. The negroes are upset that they still haven’t received their 40 acres and a mule, but I was supposed to get those negroes. Who’s the real victim here?
antiaphrodite-
You cannot sit there and say that because white people are a minority in Hawaii, or anywhere in the US, that white people are not on top of the social ladder, in every possible sense of the term. Besides, no one in Hawaii is going to fly the CFA flag, nor are we really looked down upon there. I lived in Hawaii for 5 years, and I am white. Never have I felt bad about the color of my skin.
As a Canadian, I can empathasize with you Americans. We have our own intolerant population who belittle and continue to oppress a minority, treating them like second class citizens in their own country. There are even laws to support them! They are known as “Quebecois”. However, unlike the South, they would never actually have an armed rebellion – they’re French.
@ soup…you are a fucking racist retard. shove a confederate flag up your arse.
@ antiaphrodite
white power!
That would suck to be a rebel. 90% fatties
@ alordslums
I know which one you are ;D
elerico, I never said white people were not the top. In fact, I did state that this is definitely not a widespread thing. But I am sick and tired of people telling me that because I am white, I have never faced discrimination, when I had friends get their heads smashed in for the simple fact that they were white.
I grew up primarily on the west coast, in communities where racism was not prominent and not an issue. I attend college in the south right now, and I hate that my classes are tinged with a “white people suck” mentality. My ancestors were not slave owners, and I certainly have never done anything of that nature for people to be angry with me- why is it my fault?
If you honestly never saw racism in Hawaii, you were lucky. If you were on Oahu (Maui and Big Island did not have that mentality, from what I remember of them), I do not know how you managed to never see it.
all this bs is just bs. these things are only a big deal because people make them a big deal. the swastika,that flag,hundreds of things are taken as racist or bad or offensive in some way,but those symbols didnt start off meaning that and they shouldnt have to mean that now just because somebody put a negative connotation on them at one point….like,i understand why theyre bad or would offend people,but idk, i just dont think people should let a symbol,a flag,a word get to them so badly and control their emotions like that. just because something meant one thing at some point doesn’t mean it has to mean that now…or,for example,go to Indonesia and show them a swastika and theyre going ot tell you a completely different meaning…idk,it only offends you because you let offend you,it only means that because thats the only way you can see it…
@114
i expect a blowjob at the next gig then.
ohbabybaby – You can’t render the swastika impotent simply by saying it was a benign symbol that was misused. There is no going back on the swastika. No moral, thinking person would use it unless to provoke or to align themselves with Nazis. In trying to intellectualize the use of offensive symbols – the swastika in particular – you are choosing to ignore the horrific acts, perpetrated millions of times over, that were committed by the Nazis under this symbol.
My guess is you’re a university student.
Soup, apparently the real victim would be sarcasm and irony.
You racist confederate c*nt.
@voltaire
Which one is alordslums?
@alordslums
I hope Voltaire is a dude
sidney, me too! i hate to think how cringeworthy and awkward it’d be if he weren’t…. :-s
hobo – what do you expect? a fine-tuned understanding of the intricacies of humour? it’s the school holidays you know.
no,im not choosing to ignore anything.im very aware of them.if thats what you would need to do in order to consider it inoffensive then so be it, but you and i obviously dont think alike. & im not saying its just a symbol thats misused,its more the fact that it meant one thing,then it meant another,then another,and so on…if you only see nazi when you see it,then okay,thats your mind and your way of thinking.it doesnt always have to be associated with hitler,nazis,ect…im just saying theyre are more sides to things..
and youre guess is wrong..
hate to get all serious, but i think referring your argument to the nazi flag is specious to say the least.
yes the swastika has been used by hindus, jaians, even aviators (thanks wikipedia); but a swastika in black, on a white disk, and with a red background means one thing only – it’s the bona fide, overarching symbol of intolerance, bigotry, mass genocide etc and is used as such by any organisation nowadays that espouses the same views. there’s no two ways about it.
*When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and “those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation.” (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: “As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work.*
oh, but wait, it could actually just be an aerial view of two lesbians scissoring on a giant white frisbee adrift on a sea of tomato-juice. i never looked at it that way before…
but guys, guys, we’re forgetting what’s at stake here:
how stupid, fat, cheap, inbred and trashy all these wedding guests are, and more importantly, how great it makes us feel belittling them!
all i’m asking for is a bit of perspective.
alord, the last paragraph in your comment #124 = absolute win.
I’m very turned on by that, and will never look at that symbol in the same way EVER again.
I second that motion Word.
Oh and due to previous conversations with you, I happen to know which one you are alord.
how do you all just know which one alord is?
Telepathy . . . .
lies 🙁
i never said the nazi flag wasnt a symbol of hate,im talking about the swastika in general as well as the ‘rubel fag’,ect,ect…
Must be the one with the hand that hangs loosely at the wrist?
walter, you’re clutching at straws; you’ve only ever seen me handcuffed and with a brown paper bag over my head.
“right leg” ahah what a stereotype
Are you guys at all aware that a few thousand black men actually volunteered in the ranks of the Confederate army as fighting soldiers, that several CSA generals were abolitionists or that the CSA had integated regiments of Hispanics, blacks and Native Americans and the Union did not?
Talk about denial, holy crap.
i do think this wedding looks cheap and tacky and I am sure these inbreds are misrepresenting the purpose behind the Confederate flag. A large part of the Civil was for the South to keep its way of life. Unfortunately, tobacco and cotton were the real bread winners in the south and slaves were at the proprietors disposals. This is a sad thing that has happened in the past. My grandfather and his father picked cotton right next to the “negros”. My family were no slave owners. They worked their way up from the bottom. Just like every real American should. I am sick of this sense of entitlement that so many people feel are owned to them. Watch the movie Precious to get an idea. My grandfather flies his confederate flag to honor the fallen soldiers who were trying to preserve the southern way of life.(not just to keep slaves but to keep tradition and property. Slave ownership aside, for you to directly link the confederate flag with racism makes you ignorant and close-minded. I lived in Columbia and witnessed the removal of the Confederate flag from the state house. I do not believe the south will rise again. I don’t think it is even an issue. I think we as a nation need to band together and put racism aside. I am sick of affirmative action. Reverse racism is just as real as racism itself. Take a walk in my own town — a 98% black community where I am the minority. I busted my ass to get Salutatorian and tied with a “minority”. The Valedictorian was also a white female and I was called into the guidance office to be told that although I along with my competition had the exact same GPA and extracurricular skills; he would be given the honor. I would have to settle for 3rd in class (no mention of a “tie”)And I quote “We just can’t have two white girls be Valedictorian and Salutatorian. It doesn’t look right” So take a moment and think before you write something idiotic. Spot bickering about who deserves what because of their skin color and maybe we can actually focus on the things that matter. Like the future generations…..and I am done
@ ambchop: You are really doing your “Confederate flag isn’t explicitly racist” view point a disservice by immediately launching into a diatribe about Affirmative Action. Also, due to all of the sentence fragments and misspellings in your post, I would downplay your status as salutatorian. Again, you are not doing any favors for the South’s reputation there.
What the Confederate flag once stood for is irrelevent. Things change. Symbols change. The swastika was originally a symbol in Buddhist and Hindu religions, but it has obviously taken on a much more ominous connotation now. If these people at a Nazi swastika flag, would you have defended their rich Buddhist heritage?
Whether implicitly or explicitly, the Confederate flag has a strong relationship with racists. There may be some people out there with strong feelings towards the flag for purely historical and cultural reasons, but they are overshadowed by idiots like this.
You know jaymztheking just because someone yells something loudly and a lot of times does not make it so. Symbols are in the eye of the beholder not the observer.
Take the moon and morning star (Venus) for example. To me and most of the world, when they are placed together on a flag or a banner, they mean terror and death to the muslims they mean peace and love, to the ancient Mid-Easterners they were the moon god, in the American west they were a symbol of law and order.
Just because the C.S. flag means racism to you does not mean it is so. Likewise the swastika still means what it does to the hindu.
@SeeBea: You really aren’t helping the “Confederate flag isn’t racist” thing either, with your racist example. The moon and star symbol represents all of Islam, not just a few radicals. Seeing it as a symbol of “terror and death” makes as much sense as seeing the cross as a symbol terror and death, given the long history of Christians persecuting and killing people they don’t agree with.
Symbols may be in the eye of the beholder, but their meanings are shaped by those who use them. If the majority of people who use a certain symbol are racist fucks, then the rest of the world will see that symbol as being racist. And while the swastika may have a long history as a sacred symbol, it’s meaning in the Western world as a symbol of Nazi hatred is not something that can just be ignored.
TL;DR:
You can’t just ignore common perceptions of a symbol because you think it should be perceived differently. Also; implying that all Muslims are terrorists makes you look like an ignorant, racist jackass.
Well, all muslim’s may not be terrorists, but sure seems that all terrorists are muslim.
And using Christianity’s history of the Crusades as a testament to ‘Christian’ violence is ridiculous. First off, you’re comparing something that took place 700 to 1,000 years ago to modern-day Islam. You don’t see a problem with that? Second, guess who the Christians were fighting during the Crusades…that’s right….muslims.
Excuse me, this is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Stop flying your bullshit loser flag! Anyone who flies a confederate flag is UN-AMERICAN! LEARN TO FLY THE RIGHT FLAG! Hint: It’s got 50 stars and 13 stripes.
“Well, all muslim’s may not be terrorists, but sure seems that all terrorists are muslim.”
i registered just to point out that you’re a fucking moron and this is a fucking moronic statement.
northern ireland, anyone? or the basque separatists in spain? or the aum shinrikyo sarin gas attacks in japan? or the tamil tigers?
or, closer to home, how about the anthrax mailings after 9/11, or the beltway snipers, or those lunatics who like to bomb abortion clinics?
people have been terrorizing one another for centuries. learn you some history.
What I find most hilarious about this sloppy slew of slackjawed bigotry is the inherent bunker mentality of the Idiots’ Collective proudly parading their wilful ignorance of evidential history in favour of a scapegoating blame reflex.
It’s not Islam’s fault you can’t understand that sentence.
She can’t tell her right leg from her left, for Pete’s sake. I’m not surprised they’re this ass-backwards.
I’m just throwing this out there….but maybe she meant right as in correct leg…is it possible she had it on her “right” leg before and its supposed to be on the left?
What I find hilarious is that her bridesmaids are dressed in what we all know to be the Union color.
Curious Pencil, I did understand that sentence. Also, I’m from the South, female, Christian, and educated. Yes, her spelling is repulsive. At least if you’re going to have such a theme at your wedding, or any event, represent it and spell it correctly, please. As a Texan, we are a prideful bunch, and Southerners in general are the same. The Rebel Flag is about pride, not hate. It’s representative of the South and the pride Southerners have in their roots, trials, tribulations, triumphs, and occasional illiterate weddings.
As a side note, it was the “War of Northern Aggression” if you’re from the South.
I’m in Texas also and no one I’ve ever met has ever called it the “War of Northern Aggression”. Not who was being serious anyway.
“Ruble fag” is the funniest thing I’ve seen in the long time.
Rednecks are but one reason why you need to have a license to breed.