Ha fuctriteup, you just illistrated a good point, the point being that you are incapable of logic thinking or of using adequate examples to make a good point(even if by your own admission there is a million examples). So what you are saying is that Twilight sold so many copies becuase its dirt cheap? If I am to understand you correctly people would still buy a Ford even if they have unlimited financial resources. I think not.
That explains why millions of people in South Africa live in tin shacks, because mansions are just sooooo unpopular. No you idiot, its because they can’t afford a mansion. Just like most people can’t afford a Ferrari, but Ford is just a litle bit cheaper. That was a bit of sarcasm, but I suspect you didn’t catch that.
I await your ‘intelligent’ response with bated breath as people like you can’t help but proving yourselves over and over again.
@ faye
I am not catholic, and as such did not realise catholicism and christianity where mutually exclusive. Pardon me for being under the misapprehension that catholics also believe in Christ. So you are catholic but not christian, right?
I was not saying that I find Twilight good because it sold 75 000 000 copies, I like it because I like it. I was saying that all you people dissing it don’t have a leg to stand on as
1) you did not read the books, but hate it purely becuase its popular, and oh its soooo uncool to like anything popular
2) the broader reading community disagrees with you as it actually sold 75 000 000 copies.
Oh yes, and the fact that “75 000 000” is in fact a fact means that it is substantiated. I have yet to see you backing up anything you say with hard facts so you are in fact the one with unsubstantiated opinions. Is that enough in facts for you? Oh, and the bible and christians being not qaulity and not serious is in fact not a fact, just your unsubstansiated opinion.
@fuctriteup…I assume you are a guy, hence using the example of car sales in a debate about books. But in the interest of apples versus brocolli, let’s entertain your car theory for a moment.
a) While some people would consider a Ford a non-car (myself included), millions upon millions of people consider it a suitable mode of transport to get from point A to point B. The same can be said for cars in the same price-category, but once again it is about preferance.
b) A Ferrari is by no means exclusive considering that every filthy rich, pencil-dick, arrogant asshole (look I’m generalizing – oh snap) drives one.
c) I’m guessing that you don’t drive a Ferrari, but really want to.
So therefore I am guessing you are in fact desperate to read the Twilight books, but you can either not afford it or you are afraid that people might think you are a filthy rich, pencil-dick, arrogant asshole. Am I getting warm??
@Faye…this is starting to get old. I don’t have kids, but here I find myself trying to explain something so simple to someone with the mentality of a 2-year-old.
Honey…a baptism is not a one-way ticket to heaven, but you hold on to that dream very very tightly. I think that you had a major lapse in judgement when you brought the Bible into this debate in the first place, because it is not hard to guess what reaction it would provoke. I am extremely grateful that you didn’t mention the Koran or the Torah, because Christian are quite mellow in comparison when it comes to mocking their religion.
So you say that you are Catholic, so I am assuming you read the bible? Or if you have experienced a change of direction since your youth and you are now a non-believer, can you really use your baptism as a defence seeing as you don’t believe that the bible is to be taken seriously?? You just don’t make any sense. Oh and suggesting that we are suggesting that just because millions of people read the Bible that everyone should believe what it says, now that is just plain idiotic. Once again let me remind you that you brought the Bible into this discussion. I am sure that any other religious person would not just sit back and listen to your idiotic ranting about things you clearly know nothing about.
Haven’t you ever heard that when in company there are certain topics you avoid, because religion is personal. I believe that everyone has the right to express themselves provided that you actually know what you are talking about and that you open your tiny tiny tiny little brain to other people’s views.
I see we have gone of course again. Not my fault I assure you.
I suggest you remove your Twilight books from that hiding place under your bed and own up to the fact that you are a closet Twilighter just beggin to come out. Why else would you take the time to diss something with such passion?
Oh wow, this is quite the pissing match! Too funny.
@landi: If there’s anyone that seems to have a need to prove themselves, it’s you. Why else would you write a novella-sized response to a 7 line comment? Whatever hun, clearly this need of yours to feel intellectually superior to someone you’ve never met in a Lamebook forum on fucking Twilight of all things is all you have in your life, and for that you have my condolences. You can have this one, I really don’t care that much. Pet one of your 14 cats for me, would you? Or better yet, go get laid, if you can find a guy willing to go near that polar ice cap box of yours. Clearly you need it.
@999natas: Test drove a Ferrari once, wasn’t my style. I’m more of a classic muscle kind of guy. We can agree on one point, they are pretty douchy and so are the guidos that have hardons for them. I have no need to wave my good fortune in other people’s faces, my daily driver is a 7 year old Ford Ranger. I save the 1969 Yenko Camaro 427 for Sunday drives with the wife and kids. Anyway, I hope that since you clearly have such a hate on for people of means that one day you can escape your miserable lower-middle class existence and make something of yourself. Start by putting the teenage fantasy books down and use the time to learn some kind of skill that doesn’t involve selling shoes or bras to Twilight’s target demographic.
@fuctriteup… Thank you for telling me a little bit about yourself, though I think I fell asleep halfway through it. I would return the favour, but things are so hectic here at the shoe store I just can’t find the time. Interesting parallel between lower-midddle class and an obviously booming bussiness…shucks you sure are smart…err…not.
I was baptized, went 12 years to a roman catholic school, read the bible, and now I “change direction”, as 999natas said. Guess landi didn’t catch that. All that thing about catholicism and christianity is kinda out of line. I’m not going to respond things about religion because, as I said before, it’s not a matter of that. I could’ve used as an example of a best-seller the American Spelling Book or dictionaries, and as you can see nowadays, spelling and orthography leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of young and old people. I just cleared the thing about baptism because landi keeps assuming things, such as I know nothing about christian catholic religion, or that I never read any Twilight book… you can read them and like them or not like them, right? Either way you have some background knowledge when discussing with others.
“Why else would you take the time to diss something with such passion?” — I’m not gonna lie: it’s just funny the way you (plural) react. You wrote 4 paragraphs about religion and almost anything about Twilight, just because it’s a matter of taste and you can like it or not. Which it’s true, but then again, I never say a thing about the saga! I was ranting about taking popularity as a point to imply that zillions of readers are “wright” and a small part is “wrong” with their thinking. Tell that to Galileo or Copernicus, ha (yes, I’m exaggerating).
@ fuctriteup
Thanks for “letting” me have this one. Ran out of clever car/book comparisons so soon? My 14 cats are well petted and very happy, thanks for caring. They are a bit underfed though, the shoe store doesn’t pay so great, but what can I say, I just looooove feet. Thats how I fell in love with my husband, he has the most gorgeous feet and he indulges my fetish.
@ faye
OK, so if a shitload of people deciding to spend their hard earned money on a book does not substantiate the validity of that book, what in your opinion does? Maybe the reviews given by the critics? Or are those who hate it simply because its popular the ones who are “wright” (maybe you meant “right” and maybe a dictionary would be a good investment)? So J.R.R. Tolkien’s “Lord of the rings”, J.K. Rowling’s “Harry Potter” series, Dan Brown’s “The Da Vinci Code”, numerous Steven King and Charles Dickens books (to name but a few), who were all best sellers in their time, are not to be judged on the fact that they were best sellers but by the rantings of those who did not like it?
Any books with a fictiuos nature that made it onto the best seller lists were deemed good enough by the majority of those who read to spend money on. Of course with any book there will be those who do not like it. Is the opinion of those few (if they have in fact read the book) more valid than the majority and even the opinions of the critics whose job it is to decide what makes good literature?
I used fiction books as examples as self-help books for instance are bought for self-improvement and fiction books are purely for the pleasure of reading (Twilight is afterall fiction). So now the comparison is apples to apples and not apples to the earth being flat or Ferraris or the Bible. And yes, people don’t buy the Bible purely for the pleasure of reading so that comparison is also not valid. So what in your opinion proves the validity of a fiction book?
1) The Da Vinci Code was a piece of shit. Comparing a piece of shit to another piece of shit doesn’t make them both good. And I like Stephen King, but he describes himself as the Big Mac of the literary world, so your comparison there isn’t valid to your point. Harry Potter is also not literature; it’s an easy read and it’s entertaining, but I wouldn’t call it an exceptionally well-written series.
Also, it’s STEPHEN King, perhaps you should invest in a dictionary or borrow Faye’s. See also “fictitious,” “after all,” “apostrophe” and “comma.” For bonus points, see “grammar.”
2) What is popular is just popular–that doesn’t give it any sort of inherent quality. The masses are not any sort of judge of great literature; in fact, if you talk to the masses, most of them can’t name any literature beyond Jane Austen and Charles Dickens. Sometimes what is popular and what is high quality coincide, but often, they don’t–Danielle Steele is also a bestseller, so is James Patterson, so is Sue Grafton, none of these writers is a literary genius.
Being a best-seller doesn’t make a book “literature.” Any real literary critic would gouge out their eyeballs and take a hydrochloric acid dip before calling the Twilight series “literature.” Please, provide me a link to a real literary critic who has called Twilight literature? I know that you don’t have one, because such a link does not exist. Who is qualified to make this distinction? People who study literature and books. Not Joe Schmoe on the street buying Twilight books because, hurr, they like the sparkly vampirez hurrrrrrrr TEEM EDWRAD FOREVR!!!!!!1!
The “validity of a fiction book”–Jesus, where do I start? Your questions are all over the map here. Look, you can enjoy any book that you want, but enjoyment and quality are not the same thing. Enjoyment is based on a feeling, and quality is based on objective reasoning. I can enjoy reading Sookie Stackhouse novels, but I objectively know that they are not literature. On the other hand, I can enjoy reading books by Javier Marías and know that they are literature. I can look at the style of writing, the depth of the characters, the way the book is structured, the imagery, the themes, the message, the originality, the probable social commentary, the careful crafting of different scenes–so many things that I can look at to “prove” the “validity” of a book. And I can enjoy a poorly-written-but-fun book without having to defend it as great literature.
Twilight, of course, is poorly-written and the opposite of fun, but we won’t go into that.
I have a friend that described Twilight very accurately. It exemplifies the teenage escapism that most teenage girls write during middle school. Unfortunately (or fortunately) Stephenie Meyers never decided to develop her writing to professional levels and instead of keeping her writings on amateur sites, she decided to publish the piece of crap known as the Twilight saga.
And before I receive criticism from those who defend the books, I have read the books and while I was still young and naive and writing such escapism(before “Twihards” existed) I enjoyed it, at least while I was reading it. Twihards don’t piss me off because they enjoy Twilight (unless they’re middle age women, that just scares me…) They piss me off because most of them didn’t bother reading until they decided to make the movies (Not to mention the insanity surrounding their fanaticism). Much like Harry Potter “fans” who didn’t bother reading the books until the movies started coming out. For those young crazy tweens who enjoy Twilight, they will eventually come to their senses, much as I did, and mature to the point they recognize the books as crap.
If not, well we all have our opinions and I’ll leave at that. You can guess my own opinion.
what i am trying to figure out is why does @dan_fargis constantly has the need to bring up Liberals in EVERY post he has written. every single post i have read by him mentions bashing of the Democrats, when it literally has nothing to do with politics in a status. what the hell?
and personally, i have not read the books, nor seen the movies, but what i have heard is that the books are actually decent, not that i would know, never bothered to read something Justin Bieber fans are super excited about. not really my style, just sayin’.
I love books. I bought the first three Twilight books as a three for one deal at a second hand store (before I heard any of the hype) and I could only get through the first and a quarter way through the second. I threw them in the garbage. I normally donate used books to the library if I can’t re-sell them, but these ones? No. Just.. no.
Ha fuctriteup, you just illistrated a good point, the point being that you are incapable of logic thinking or of using adequate examples to make a good point(even if by your own admission there is a million examples). So what you are saying is that Twilight sold so many copies becuase its dirt cheap? If I am to understand you correctly people would still buy a Ford even if they have unlimited financial resources. I think not.
That explains why millions of people in South Africa live in tin shacks, because mansions are just sooooo unpopular. No you idiot, its because they can’t afford a mansion. Just like most people can’t afford a Ferrari, but Ford is just a litle bit cheaper. That was a bit of sarcasm, but I suspect you didn’t catch that.
I await your ‘intelligent’ response with bated breath as people like you can’t help but proving yourselves over and over again.
@ faye
I am not catholic, and as such did not realise catholicism and christianity where mutually exclusive. Pardon me for being under the misapprehension that catholics also believe in Christ. So you are catholic but not christian, right?
I was not saying that I find Twilight good because it sold 75 000 000 copies, I like it because I like it. I was saying that all you people dissing it don’t have a leg to stand on as
1) you did not read the books, but hate it purely becuase its popular, and oh its soooo uncool to like anything popular
2) the broader reading community disagrees with you as it actually sold 75 000 000 copies.
Oh yes, and the fact that “75 000 000” is in fact a fact means that it is substantiated. I have yet to see you backing up anything you say with hard facts so you are in fact the one with unsubstantiated opinions. Is that enough in facts for you? Oh, and the bible and christians being not qaulity and not serious is in fact not a fact, just your unsubstansiated opinion.
@fuctriteup…I assume you are a guy, hence using the example of car sales in a debate about books. But in the interest of apples versus brocolli, let’s entertain your car theory for a moment.
a) While some people would consider a Ford a non-car (myself included), millions upon millions of people consider it a suitable mode of transport to get from point A to point B. The same can be said for cars in the same price-category, but once again it is about preferance.
b) A Ferrari is by no means exclusive considering that every filthy rich, pencil-dick, arrogant asshole (look I’m generalizing – oh snap) drives one.
c) I’m guessing that you don’t drive a Ferrari, but really want to.
So therefore I am guessing you are in fact desperate to read the Twilight books, but you can either not afford it or you are afraid that people might think you are a filthy rich, pencil-dick, arrogant asshole. Am I getting warm??
@Faye…this is starting to get old. I don’t have kids, but here I find myself trying to explain something so simple to someone with the mentality of a 2-year-old.
Honey…a baptism is not a one-way ticket to heaven, but you hold on to that dream very very tightly. I think that you had a major lapse in judgement when you brought the Bible into this debate in the first place, because it is not hard to guess what reaction it would provoke. I am extremely grateful that you didn’t mention the Koran or the Torah, because Christian are quite mellow in comparison when it comes to mocking their religion.
So you say that you are Catholic, so I am assuming you read the bible? Or if you have experienced a change of direction since your youth and you are now a non-believer, can you really use your baptism as a defence seeing as you don’t believe that the bible is to be taken seriously?? You just don’t make any sense. Oh and suggesting that we are suggesting that just because millions of people read the Bible that everyone should believe what it says, now that is just plain idiotic. Once again let me remind you that you brought the Bible into this discussion. I am sure that any other religious person would not just sit back and listen to your idiotic ranting about things you clearly know nothing about.
Haven’t you ever heard that when in company there are certain topics you avoid, because religion is personal. I believe that everyone has the right to express themselves provided that you actually know what you are talking about and that you open your tiny tiny tiny little brain to other people’s views.
I see we have gone of course again. Not my fault I assure you.
I suggest you remove your Twilight books from that hiding place under your bed and own up to the fact that you are a closet Twilighter just beggin to come out. Why else would you take the time to diss something with such passion?
Oh wow, this is quite the pissing match! Too funny.
@landi: If there’s anyone that seems to have a need to prove themselves, it’s you. Why else would you write a novella-sized response to a 7 line comment? Whatever hun, clearly this need of yours to feel intellectually superior to someone you’ve never met in a Lamebook forum on fucking Twilight of all things is all you have in your life, and for that you have my condolences. You can have this one, I really don’t care that much. Pet one of your 14 cats for me, would you? Or better yet, go get laid, if you can find a guy willing to go near that polar ice cap box of yours. Clearly you need it.
@999natas: Test drove a Ferrari once, wasn’t my style. I’m more of a classic muscle kind of guy. We can agree on one point, they are pretty douchy and so are the guidos that have hardons for them. I have no need to wave my good fortune in other people’s faces, my daily driver is a 7 year old Ford Ranger. I save the 1969 Yenko Camaro 427 for Sunday drives with the wife and kids. Anyway, I hope that since you clearly have such a hate on for people of means that one day you can escape your miserable lower-middle class existence and make something of yourself. Start by putting the teenage fantasy books down and use the time to learn some kind of skill that doesn’t involve selling shoes or bras to Twilight’s target demographic.
Twilight on losers.
@fuctriteup… Thank you for telling me a little bit about yourself, though I think I fell asleep halfway through it. I would return the favour, but things are so hectic here at the shoe store I just can’t find the time. Interesting parallel between lower-midddle class and an obviously booming bussiness…shucks you sure are smart…err…not.
I was baptized, went 12 years to a roman catholic school, read the bible, and now I “change direction”, as 999natas said. Guess landi didn’t catch that. All that thing about catholicism and christianity is kinda out of line. I’m not going to respond things about religion because, as I said before, it’s not a matter of that. I could’ve used as an example of a best-seller the American Spelling Book or dictionaries, and as you can see nowadays, spelling and orthography leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of young and old people. I just cleared the thing about baptism because landi keeps assuming things, such as I know nothing about christian catholic religion, or that I never read any Twilight book… you can read them and like them or not like them, right? Either way you have some background knowledge when discussing with others.
“Why else would you take the time to diss something with such passion?” — I’m not gonna lie: it’s just funny the way you (plural) react. You wrote 4 paragraphs about religion and almost anything about Twilight, just because it’s a matter of taste and you can like it or not. Which it’s true, but then again, I never say a thing about the saga! I was ranting about taking popularity as a point to imply that zillions of readers are “wright” and a small part is “wrong” with their thinking. Tell that to Galileo or Copernicus, ha (yes, I’m exaggerating).
old people aren’t human now?
@ fuctriteup
Thanks for “letting” me have this one. Ran out of clever car/book comparisons so soon? My 14 cats are well petted and very happy, thanks for caring. They are a bit underfed though, the shoe store doesn’t pay so great, but what can I say, I just looooove feet. Thats how I fell in love with my husband, he has the most gorgeous feet and he indulges my fetish.
@ faye
OK, so if a shitload of people deciding to spend their hard earned money on a book does not substantiate the validity of that book, what in your opinion does? Maybe the reviews given by the critics? Or are those who hate it simply because its popular the ones who are “wright” (maybe you meant “right” and maybe a dictionary would be a good investment)? So J.R.R. Tolkien’s “Lord of the rings”, J.K. Rowling’s “Harry Potter” series, Dan Brown’s “The Da Vinci Code”, numerous Steven King and Charles Dickens books (to name but a few), who were all best sellers in their time, are not to be judged on the fact that they were best sellers but by the rantings of those who did not like it?
Any books with a fictiuos nature that made it onto the best seller lists were deemed good enough by the majority of those who read to spend money on. Of course with any book there will be those who do not like it. Is the opinion of those few (if they have in fact read the book) more valid than the majority and even the opinions of the critics whose job it is to decide what makes good literature?
I used fiction books as examples as self-help books for instance are bought for self-improvement and fiction books are purely for the pleasure of reading (Twilight is afterall fiction). So now the comparison is apples to apples and not apples to the earth being flat or Ferraris or the Bible. And yes, people don’t buy the Bible purely for the pleasure of reading so that comparison is also not valid. So what in your opinion proves the validity of a fiction book?
@landi
1) The Da Vinci Code was a piece of shit. Comparing a piece of shit to another piece of shit doesn’t make them both good. And I like Stephen King, but he describes himself as the Big Mac of the literary world, so your comparison there isn’t valid to your point. Harry Potter is also not literature; it’s an easy read and it’s entertaining, but I wouldn’t call it an exceptionally well-written series.
Also, it’s STEPHEN King, perhaps you should invest in a dictionary or borrow Faye’s. See also “fictitious,” “after all,” “apostrophe” and “comma.” For bonus points, see “grammar.”
2) What is popular is just popular–that doesn’t give it any sort of inherent quality. The masses are not any sort of judge of great literature; in fact, if you talk to the masses, most of them can’t name any literature beyond Jane Austen and Charles Dickens. Sometimes what is popular and what is high quality coincide, but often, they don’t–Danielle Steele is also a bestseller, so is James Patterson, so is Sue Grafton, none of these writers is a literary genius.
Being a best-seller doesn’t make a book “literature.” Any real literary critic would gouge out their eyeballs and take a hydrochloric acid dip before calling the Twilight series “literature.” Please, provide me a link to a real literary critic who has called Twilight literature? I know that you don’t have one, because such a link does not exist. Who is qualified to make this distinction? People who study literature and books. Not Joe Schmoe on the street buying Twilight books because, hurr, they like the sparkly vampirez hurrrrrrrr TEEM EDWRAD FOREVR!!!!!!1!
The “validity of a fiction book”–Jesus, where do I start? Your questions are all over the map here. Look, you can enjoy any book that you want, but enjoyment and quality are not the same thing. Enjoyment is based on a feeling, and quality is based on objective reasoning. I can enjoy reading Sookie Stackhouse novels, but I objectively know that they are not literature. On the other hand, I can enjoy reading books by Javier Marías and know that they are literature. I can look at the style of writing, the depth of the characters, the way the book is structured, the imagery, the themes, the message, the originality, the probable social commentary, the careful crafting of different scenes–so many things that I can look at to “prove” the “validity” of a book. And I can enjoy a poorly-written-but-fun book without having to defend it as great literature.
Twilight, of course, is poorly-written and the opposite of fun, but we won’t go into that.
I have a friend that described Twilight very accurately. It exemplifies the teenage escapism that most teenage girls write during middle school. Unfortunately (or fortunately) Stephenie Meyers never decided to develop her writing to professional levels and instead of keeping her writings on amateur sites, she decided to publish the piece of crap known as the Twilight saga.
And before I receive criticism from those who defend the books, I have read the books and while I was still young and naive and writing such escapism(before “Twihards” existed) I enjoyed it, at least while I was reading it. Twihards don’t piss me off because they enjoy Twilight (unless they’re middle age women, that just scares me…) They piss me off because most of them didn’t bother reading until they decided to make the movies (Not to mention the insanity surrounding their fanaticism). Much like Harry Potter “fans” who didn’t bother reading the books until the movies started coming out. For those young crazy tweens who enjoy Twilight, they will eventually come to their senses, much as I did, and mature to the point they recognize the books as crap.
If not, well we all have our opinions and I’ll leave at that. You can guess my own opinion.
what i am trying to figure out is why does @dan_fargis constantly has the need to bring up Liberals in EVERY post he has written. every single post i have read by him mentions bashing of the Democrats, when it literally has nothing to do with politics in a status. what the hell?
and personally, i have not read the books, nor seen the movies, but what i have heard is that the books are actually decent, not that i would know, never bothered to read something Justin Bieber fans are super excited about. not really my style, just sayin’.
@sasha
I love books. I bought the first three Twilight books as a three for one deal at a second hand store (before I heard any of the hype) and I could only get through the first and a quarter way through the second. I threw them in the garbage. I normally donate used books to the library if I can’t re-sell them, but these ones? No. Just.. no.
Being myself: It gets me laid.